Roundtable Disussion: Most Dominant Ever
Brandon Hogan, shown here making a tackle against Pitt's LeSean McCoy, is Justin Waddell's pick as most dominating player this decade. Said Waddell of Hogan, "When it came to him dominating and helping Osbourn win that title, I'm confident in saying they don't win it without him."
Photo By: blog.pennlive.com
One player Gameday's Andy Hayes considered picking for most dominant in this decade was West Springfield's Bryn Renner, stating, "You couldn't defend him. He could make every throw, he ran a high-flying offense, could call plays at the line of scrimmage, overall he was just a different player. It'll be interesting to see how he does at the next level because he has a huge opportunity to be a big impact player not only at North Carolina but maybe in the NFL."
Photo By: Dave Bernhardt / Gameday Magazine | VIEW GALLERY
Welcome back to the roundtable. For this week's topic, we pick our expert's brains and ask them to name the most dominant player they've seen in this decade in Northern Virginia.
We were unfortunate to have Bruce Bornarth and Grant Paulsen not join us this week as they were too wrapped up in the July 4th festivities, but with Justin Waddle, Tom Whipple and Andy Hayes still in attendance, we got some pretty interesting answers. Not to spoil anything, but for nearly every player, a state championship was almost a prerequisite for being named. Another trend which our three experts followed was selecting players which were still fairly fresh in their minds. No players, shockingly, were selected before the 2005 season. Nonetheless, our panel still gave us some pretty suitable answers and it's pretty hard to argue against a lot of their picks.
Here's what they had to say for Week 2's roundtable:
JUSTIN WADDLE
Derek LeComte: So who's the most dominating player you've seen this decade?
JW: Wow. In this decade?
DL: Yes. Anywhere from Winchester on out to Fauquier.
JW: Honestly, the guy that I've seen who is the most dominant and lethal threat is Brandon Hogan.
DL: Brandon Hogan? For what reason?
JW: Well, he got it done defensively, playing in the corner position, but on offense I think he scored 40 or 50-something touchdowns and when it came down to beating Kevin Whaley in Salem, it was him. When it came down to beating to beating Chantilly in the title game, he was the one responsible for scoring what seemed like all their touchdowns. I want to say he had close to 4,000 all-purpose yards that year.
DL: I think that's a pretty good pick, especially when considering the year that after he left, they went 5-5.
JW: Yeah, they went 14-0 his senior and in his junior year they made the playoffs. So that's a big indicator right there.
DL: You are a Prince William based guy, but was there any other player that may have popped into your head
JW: Well, one other guy that popped into my head outside of there was Ross Metheny, who was pretty dominant in his junior year. Taking them all the way to the state title game, if he doesn't get hurt in the state title game, I don't know, they might've had a chance to win. He had a very dominant junior season, but his senior year, he didn't have to get it done through the air because they were getting it done on the ground. But his junior year, he could throw the ball wherever he wanted to and he could tuck it and run.
DL: So what ultimately made you go for a guy like Hogan over Metheny? Was it the state championship?
JW: Part of it was the state championship. He led his team to an undefeated season. There were a few in this decade that went undefeated, but not too many. It's not a given that the state champ will go undefeated, but they did. They played great competition throughout the year, they went down and played a very highly-favored Salem team at the time and I know he had big part in that game by just catching the game on our website. When he played against Chantilly, they couldn't stop him. He was also a big defensive player for them that year too.
DL: That is a pretty solid case and it's tough to argue against an undefeated state title year. Anything final you'd like to point out about Hogan?
JW: I think that he was in my opinion a very dominant player, but also a dominant athlete. You look at him now, three years later in college, he's playing defensive back and his sophomore year, he was playing slot receiver. He's your athlete type and the kid is just gifted. He has the skills, he knows how to play the game. When it came to him dominating and helping Osbourn win that title, I'm confident in saying they don't win it without him. We saw that the following year, although they did lose a lot aside from Hogan, but you don't get to a state title unless he doesn't score 40-plus touchdowns his senior season.
TOM WHIPPLE
DL: So Whipple, who's the most dominating player you've ever seen for this decade?
TW: Keith Payne for Oakton, 2005.
DL: Keith Payne from Oakton? For what reasons?
TW: Well, when you think about it, he was in an era when Percy Harvin and Evan Royster were all the news in the state of Virginia. Percy Harvin was one of the top athletes in the country, a Parade All-American. Then there was Royster who was having a big season. Keith Payne all season long was quietly doing his thing, but when it was all said and done, he was the one who made the difference across the state. He had over 2,000 yards rushing that year with 29 touchdowns. In the playoffs against Annandale, Westfield, L.C. Byrd and Landstown, he had almost 1,000 yards. He had 800 with 11 touchdowns.
DL: Some solid stats there Whipp.
TW: And in the championship game against Landstown, he had 250 yards and two touchdowns and he played both offense and defense, with which Royster and Harvin did not do. In the championship game, his one task was to shadow Percy Harvin and he only finished with 49 yards while Payne also had an interception.
DL: I gotta say, that's a pretty solid choice. I wasn't even thinking about Payne, but that's a great choice.
TW: And nobody ever talked about him.
DL: Well, not until they beat Landstown. After that, all the talk was about Keith Payne.
TW: Yeah, because going into that game, Percy Harvin was the man. He was going to roll over Oakton because he was the Parade All-American and was the most sought after prospect in the country. And then Payne holds him to just 49 yards and no touchdowns.
DL: You know what too Whipp, that put Payne on the map big-time. No one will forget that performance or his name anytime soon. I was among the many expecting Oakton to get their tail whipped by Landstown. I mean, they were beating people left and right by margins of 40-50 points, but then Payne came along and shut them entirely down.
TW: Going into that championship game, Harvin was averaging 142 yards a game. He was held to just 49 by one person alone! That was actually the one thing that got overlooked was that fact year. I mean, on top of it, he had eight rushes for 250 yards and four touchdowns that game. Come on? After that game, it was Percy Who?
DL: So does the championship and playoff performances that year put him over everyone else? Because remember, a guy like Royster helped his team win a state title as a sophomore.
TW: I think what he did in the playoffs just solidified the argument. I mean consider it, over 2,000 yards in the regular season. You don't see too many backs doing that. Harvin did it that year, but Royster did not.
DL: Hmm. Good point. Well, let me ask you this, Justin went along and picked Hogan on the premise that his team went undefeated. Oakton did not.
TW: Again, let me get back to this point and why I picked him. He was an extreme force on both offense and defense, Hogan not so much, just offense. I mean, if were going to talk dominating players, we're automatically going to start thinking about offensive players. Or if you're defensive minded, you're going to start thinking about who was the biggest and baddest linebacker. Well, dangit, Payne was a dominating linebacker and running back. I saw Hogan several times, but he wasn't dominant at defense like Payne.
DL: I think that's a pretty solid point. Any last thing you'd say about Payne?
TW: Just from a sheer fact that Oakton had a lot of good athletes on their team that year, but without Payne, they don't make it out of the playoffs.
ANDY HAYES
DL: Most dominating player you've ever seen this past decade?
AH: The best I've seen in this decade in Northern Virginia?
DL: Yup, in Northern Virginia. Winchester, Fauquier, Fairfax, Loudoun or Prince William.
AH: Wow. That's a good question. Most dominating player? Man, that's hard. Honestly, in the last decade, if I had to put a kid on the list that was the most dominating overall football player, it would be Deric Dudinski at Park View.
DL: Okay, and why Dudinski?
AH: Well, because he was the best player on the field on offense, defense and special teams and he made huge plays in all aspects of the game and always at the right time. He could run it 90 yards for a touchdown, intercept a pass and take it the distance for a touchdown, he could return a kick for a touchdown, block a punt, block a field goal. He was overall the best football player, even though he hasn't had a huge college career. He was the most dominant player I've seen, especially at the AA level. The other guy who I had on my mind was Jeron Gouveia at Stone Bridge.
DL: So who would be your final answer?
AH: That's really tough.
DL: You've got to pick one!
AH: Yeah, but they played at different levels. Because you've got to ask yourself, would Dudinski be as dominant in AAA against the same competition Jeron had? But I don't know the Liberty District is really that much tougher than the AA teams Dudinski played against. He played well against everybody, including Group AAA teams like Martinsburg, Loudoun Valley, and Herndon. Gouveia wasn't as dominant on offense as Dudinski was because Stone Bridge didn't need him as much. He was the best overall in every aspect that I've seen since I've been covering football in this area. Now, with that being said, and please quote me on this, is that I did not watch Eddie Royal and I did not watch Sean Glennon, and the only reason that they wouldn't be in the conversation is because I didn't get a chance to really follow them from the broadcast booth. Overall, I didn't closely follow the best AAA teams prior to 2005. My opinion isn't as educated because I didn't have the chance to see some of those guys. But from whom I've seen, Dudinski was the most dominating player on all sides of the football. I think the most dominating player at any position, most definitely, was Bryn Renner. He was the best at taking over a game at any given time against anybody. No defense stopped him.
DL: Wait, so now you've got a whole bunch of players in there. So to get this straight, most dominating player overall is Dudinski, but in terms of most dominant on offense is Renner?
AH: Absolutely. You couldn't defend him. He could make every throw, he ran a high-flying offense, could call plays at the line of scrimmage, overall he was just a different player. It'll be interesting to see how he does at the next level because he has a huge opportunity to be a big impact player not only at North Carolina but maybe in the NFL. To me, he was more dominant at his one position than Deric was at his one position. But overall, and when you say football player, which to me means offense, defense and special teams, than Dudinski is the overall best football player.
DL: Let me ask you this then, what influenced Waddell and Whipple's picks were that their players won state championships. Does the fact that Dudinski doesn't have a state title, should that impact your decision at all?
AH: No, because a lot of what goes into winning a championship is having some breaks go your way, and quite frankly, the thing about Brandon Hogan is that he had a lot of great players around him. Not to say that Dudinski didn't have great talent around him, but if you take Dudinski off that team, then Park View would not have won as many games as they did by a long shot. I just honestly don't know if you could say the same about Osbourn and Hogan. He was incredible, but they had a lot of good players up and down that roster. I think they still would have won, maybe not a championship, but still would have been very good. And I've seen Hogan several times, and he was as good as I've seen at taking over a game too.
DL: Do you feel that sometimes the AA guys, and especially considering that not a lot was made about Dudinski's recruitment and that LaSalle, his first college team, folded, do you think he gets slighted because he wasn't a big-time high school prospect playing AAA?
AH: Oh absolutely. Aside from our coverage of him, he didn't get a lot of publicity. Most people in AAA probably have never even heard of him. But you could take Dudinski and put him on a AAA roster and he'd still be a big impact player. He's tough, he's fast enough to cause problems for people and he was always around the ball making plays. A football player is a football player, and any AAA coach that would've seen him play would've taken him on their team in two seconds. So I don't buy into that AAA or AA comparison too much. I just look at who was the best overall player I've seen in the past two years, and Dudinski was the most dominant.
